He's just a kid and he wants to help. Isn't that worth something?
[ But Bruce isn't really pushing that angle -- if anything he looks amused, curious. He wants to know Damian's take on it as always.
Though the last comment gets a vaguely ugh look from Bruce. His ugh at that whole thing is enough to even come out on his face. That's how strong it is!! ]
... They're all kids.
[ THEY'RE ALL. KIDS. AND NONE OF THEM KNOW HOW TO DO ANYTHING. MAKING SECURITY PATROLS BEFORE MAKING SURE YOUR BASIC FOOD, SHELTER, AND WATER NEEDS ARE MET. WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU??? YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE SOAP, YOU MORONS.
[Damian continues to give Bruce a look, but it's softer than it had been before. His father wasn't wrong. Even as a kid (Damian doesn't consider himself a kid because... he's Damian), things can be done. Change. Helping.
It can be done bady, Damian thinks, but it can be done regardless.] A high percentage of this town is made up of kids, Father. [We Are Robin all over again. God help them.]
The average age here is probably sixteen. You, and Kyle, and Kent, as well as a few others are outliers. [He looks Bruce over a moment.] Are you planning to do something about it?
[ There's a slight huff here at the question. What could he possibly do without looking a tyrant to a bunch of strangers? A bunch of self-possessed teenagers with the same sureness in their skill as Damian, even if not all of them are as... acerbic about it as Damian? He doubts walking up to Guren and telling him the defense force is his now will only be received with anything but disgust and anger. ]
My plan... is to take care of the things the majority hasn't thought about. Clark's soap, for instance. None of them had the skill or thought to put that together even if it was a necessity, yes? There are plenty of fighters here, but survivalists? Not as much.
[ A lift of a shoulder in a shrug. He doesn't mind pointing this out to Damian and he knows Damian has experience with this so in his own way -- this is his order, for the two of them. They need to fill in the cracks. ]
We need to take care of the whole, with or without their knowledge while also doing research on a way to return home. There are people here who would rather not return home though, so keep that in mind as you go about things. You don't know everyone's situation, be tactful about that. Otherwise, we're caretakers now as we gather as much information as possible.
[ If it was just the four of them or him and one of the Leaguers like when Diana and him were trapped in the Gentle Man's universe, it doesn't matter. They'd focus on fighting, survival, it would just be a small group. The larger group though, it's better to at least... pretend this is a community, a town, and they're all helping each other. With the age range and the experiences, that's a better way to make sure the whole survives this.
Basically the Superman approach, which feels absolutely ridiculous but whatever!!!! ]
[Well, Damian isn't stupid enough not to realize this is a very fucking Superman approach. He isn't surprised. He also isn't surprised his father is going to be strung up between Selina and Clark in terms of getting advice--if his father even accepts said advice.
Nevermind asking for it to be given; Selina and Clark will absolutely give it without it being asked for anyway.] So we're babysitting.
[Didn't expect any less. Damian crosses his arms over his chest. It's not exactly sulking, but maybe he's sulking some. This is all par for the course, and he's use to it.] What do you plan to do when people start talking about selecting some kind of "leader"?
The defense force is already broken into teams, and I assume everyone believes Ichinose to be the commander. In an effort to establish order, everyone may try for hierarchy. And usually the person seen as the most powerful will be the one people think should be the leader.
We'll have a perfect rendition of Lord of the Flies.
Do you honestly believe everyone here can work together equally?
[ Selina and Clark absolutely both have different approaches to things and there's a high chance Bruce will eventually find himself caught between them. It's one of his emotional blindspots though so he hasn't come to that conclusion quite yet, but eventually, he'll realize he's trying to be the Bruce they both know which isn't exactly the... same... Bruce.
Oh boy.
But that's an issue for another day and instead Bruce is just going to raise an eyebrow at the babysitting comment and -- ]
That's one way to put it.
[ The next question is a good one though and something Bruce has thought about himself so he's glad to talk about it with Damian. It's true, their loose form of hierarchy isn't ... stable or prone to collapsing quite quickly. He's still figuring out how he wants to approach that but it's when Damian makes the Lord of the Flies reference that Bruce's thoughtfulness turns a bit wry. ]
I do not think everyone here can work together equally, no. But I don't think it'll turn into everyone deciding to cull the weak.
[ He pauses then and thinks back of what this actually reminds him of -- Zero Year. Gotham was an isolated, ravaged city and yet the citizens didn't attack each other in the streets. They banded together, in their own way. Duke saved his life. They attempted to solve Nygma's riddle. But Damian wasn't around for that, has no idea what Bruce experienced then and to explain it now would just miss the point entirely.
Gotham during Zero Year was a terrible place but it wasn't savage and the citizens still had lives, cherished one each other, worked to help each other. In a place like this, Bruce expects similar to happen. ]
Do you truly believe given enough time and distance good people, especially young ones, will collapse morally and turn feral and wild? Do you think that would happen here?
[Really, Damian can eat shit since, so far, for two whole months, the people here have not only survived but been on their game. Sort of. Minus the fact they spent more time making a defense force and exploring a forest than trying to craft basic necessities.
They've done a good bit of other things--the garden, keeping the chickens, the quests--and Damian can acknowledge that much. Like any Bat, he worries about the future. He worries about things getting more difficult. The trial with the birds. Restoring the sun?]
I believe with enough time and distance, even good people are capable of bad things.
[His eyes lift to Bruce's face, holding the gaze firm and resolute. Pointedly. Knowing. Bruce will already be able to tell he's going to be an ass, and Bruce will already have thought of several handfuls of examples Damian could pull from.] Dent wanted to cleanse the justice system of Gotham to create a place everyone could live without fear.
[ There's something ironic about Damian throwing Harvey in his face when Damian wasn't there. He wasn't alive yet. He read the history which is why he can talk about it but the person who lived it, who suffered because of Harvey, who still bleeds for him to this day -- it's Bruce.
So, yeah, Bruce knew Damian was about to say something especially cruel, and he takes a moment to just close his eyes and let a breath pass as the pain flares up again before he lets it go. He opens his eyes again and he looks very tired as he looks back to Damian. ]
I'm not going to say either way about Harvey, he made his choices. The same as the people here will -- their own choices, good and bad. Damian, I'm not saying that I expect this place to be a den of virtue but I don't think it'll devolve into chaos. I'm going to hope it won't and if it does... if you're right and something tips the scales the other direction...
[ A shoulder is lifted in a shrug and Bruce has made his peace with this. ]
[Honestly, Damian expects some kind of scolding about using Dent, having known that Dent was such a slam to Bruce. He's more surprised when there's nothing but his father being silently agitated. Maybe that's worse.
Then again, Bruce had asked him.] We didn't come here voluntarily much less to hold everyone's hand when they decide to do something stupid.
It seems foolish to put up the stoplight after the kid gets hit by the car, Father. [He frowns, knowing good and well already that no one has done anything which warrants this level of suspicion. Actually...] What about the person that tried to kill Higashitaka?
He said someone named Kamui wanted to kill him for no reason. I feel like you're underestimating the chaos sitting beneath the surface of this place.
[Damian, almost everyone literally turns into werewolves and people don't start a witch hunt about it. It's fine? Chill.]
[ Oh, it hurts. It hurts deeply and later, alone, he'll take some time to think about Harvey again, about how he failed him. That doesn't help right now though, does it? That doesn't add to the conversation other than letting Damian's streak of vindictiveness win. That's something he's trying to get Damian to let go of in the first place. ]
You could use the same logic against people in Gotham. They don't choose to live in Gotham, they're born there, why bother helping them when they know how bad Gotham is? They should've just left, if they get hurt it's their fault.
[ A raise of an eyebrow and -- ]
See how that sounds? No one else came here voluntarily but we have the means to help, as we do back home, and so we help. To do less would make you look like the selfish little boy I've warned you against being, Damian.
[ And if he knew Damian was talking about Josuke, he'd probably laugh because Josuke is a dramatic teenager who just complains a lot. Come on, Damian! ]
I know neither of those people. How am I supposed to assess that threat? Just by your word, when you're clearly trying to convince me the people here are bad? I will look into it though.
[ A soft shake of his head here and he's going to level a very flat look in Damian's direction. He's absolutely about to wreck Damian's shit right now. ]
What I don't understand is why you're debating me on the simple idea of helping people. Your duties as Robin aren't bound to the city limits of Gotham or even the boundaries of our universe. You know that. I know you do because I know about you, Jon, and Yggardis, boy.
[He's not sure why he continuously tries to debate with his dad when Bruce just ends up slam dunking him every time. His mouth opens, and then it snaps shut again after a moment.
It's annoying how easy he can be wrangled simply by mentioning the Robin mantle. Not that he wouldn't help people anyway! Of course he's Robin! Of course he gets the Bat standards! He's just running at the mouth. Clearly, thirteen year old prodigies know everything.] Kent. [It sounds very accusatory, and with the pinch to his brows it's obvious he realizes how Bruce came about this information.
Dammit. Why do dads have to freaking share everything? Don't they understand secret son trips across other dimensions?] Tt.
Spare me the lecture, old man. I know what I'm supposed to do. I know what it means to be Robin. I'm the best one. [There's a little of a smirk. Maybe he's teasing. Maybe.] Besides, I don't trust the rest of the "heroes" here to know what they're doing.
They're school children trying to get a hero degree.
[ Bruce leans back, an elbow on the desk and leaning his cheek on the hand as he watches Damian go through the emotions, his understanding of Bruce's implication. Yes, of course he learned it from Clark. Jon tells Clark everything and Clark tells Bruce when it has to deal with Damian. This wouldn't happen if Damian ever told him anything but then again, Bruce doesn't tell Damian anything either.
But maybe, maybe the corner of Bruce's mouth does turn upward a little in amusement at Damian's declaration that he's the best. Maybe.
He'll listen to Damian berate the others again and it takes a lot of effort not to roll his eyes again. He considers it, Damian's insistence but it does mean he's spending time with kids his own age who do the same thing he does. The Teen Titans are a good team but Damian's always struggling with them, and Jon is great for Damian but he's not here.
So... ]
Alright. But if they're willing, maybe you can help them know better. They clearly want to help and they haven't seen the same things you and I have experienced, so... teach them.
[ Go talk to kids your own age and learn how to be a person, Damian. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Unless they're Hal Jordan. ]
He's just a kid and he wants to help. Isn't that worth something?
[ But Bruce isn't really pushing that angle -- if anything he looks amused, curious. He wants to know Damian's take on it as always.
Though the last comment gets a vaguely ugh look from Bruce. His ugh at that whole thing is enough to even come out on his face. That's how strong it is!! ]
... They're all kids.
[ THEY'RE ALL. KIDS. AND NONE OF THEM KNOW HOW TO DO ANYTHING. MAKING SECURITY PATROLS BEFORE MAKING SURE YOUR BASIC FOOD, SHELTER, AND WATER NEEDS ARE MET. WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU??? YOU DIDN'T EVEN HAVE SOAP, YOU MORONS.
... But he's not going to say that, no. ]
tags you right as you tag me gomen
It can be done bady, Damian thinks, but it can be done regardless.] A high percentage of this town is made up of kids, Father. [We Are Robin all over again. God help them.]
The average age here is probably sixteen. You, and Kyle, and Kent, as well as a few others are outliers. [He looks Bruce over a moment.] Are you planning to do something about it?
i mean i'm slow af so it doesn't even matter!!!
My plan... is to take care of the things the majority hasn't thought about. Clark's soap, for instance. None of them had the skill or thought to put that together even if it was a necessity, yes? There are plenty of fighters here, but survivalists? Not as much.
[ A lift of a shoulder in a shrug. He doesn't mind pointing this out to Damian and he knows Damian has experience with this so in his own way -- this is his order, for the two of them. They need to fill in the cracks. ]
We need to take care of the whole, with or without their knowledge while also doing research on a way to return home. There are people here who would rather not return home though, so keep that in mind as you go about things. You don't know everyone's situation, be tactful about that. Otherwise, we're caretakers now as we gather as much information as possible.
[ If it was just the four of them or him and one of the Leaguers like when Diana and him were trapped in the Gentle Man's universe, it doesn't matter. They'd focus on fighting, survival, it would just be a small group. The larger group though, it's better to at least... pretend this is a community, a town, and they're all helping each other. With the age range and the experiences, that's a better way to make sure the whole survives this.
Basically the Superman approach, which feels absolutely ridiculous but whatever!!!! ]
no subject
Nevermind asking for it to be given; Selina and Clark will absolutely give it without it being asked for anyway.] So we're babysitting.
[Didn't expect any less. Damian crosses his arms over his chest. It's not exactly sulking, but maybe he's sulking some. This is all par for the course, and he's use to it.] What do you plan to do when people start talking about selecting some kind of "leader"?
The defense force is already broken into teams, and I assume everyone believes Ichinose to be the commander. In an effort to establish order, everyone may try for hierarchy. And usually the person seen as the most powerful will be the one people think should be the leader.
We'll have a perfect rendition of Lord of the Flies.
Do you honestly believe everyone here can work together equally?
no subject
Oh boy.
But that's an issue for another day and instead Bruce is just going to raise an eyebrow at the babysitting comment and -- ]
That's one way to put it.
[ The next question is a good one though and something Bruce has thought about himself so he's glad to talk about it with Damian. It's true, their loose form of hierarchy isn't ... stable or prone to collapsing quite quickly. He's still figuring out how he wants to approach that but it's when Damian makes the Lord of the Flies reference that Bruce's thoughtfulness turns a bit wry. ]
I do not think everyone here can work together equally, no. But I don't think it'll turn into everyone deciding to cull the weak.
[ He pauses then and thinks back of what this actually reminds him of -- Zero Year. Gotham was an isolated, ravaged city and yet the citizens didn't attack each other in the streets. They banded together, in their own way. Duke saved his life. They attempted to solve Nygma's riddle. But Damian wasn't around for that, has no idea what Bruce experienced then and to explain it now would just miss the point entirely.
Gotham during Zero Year was a terrible place but it wasn't savage and the citizens still had lives, cherished one each other, worked to help each other. In a place like this, Bruce expects similar to happen. ]
Do you truly believe given enough time and distance good people, especially young ones, will collapse morally and turn feral and wild? Do you think that would happen here?
no subject
They've done a good bit of other things--the garden, keeping the chickens, the quests--and Damian can acknowledge that much. Like any Bat, he worries about the future. He worries about things getting more difficult. The trial with the birds. Restoring the sun?]
I believe with enough time and distance, even good people are capable of bad things.
[His eyes lift to Bruce's face, holding the gaze firm and resolute. Pointedly. Knowing. Bruce will already be able to tell he's going to be an ass, and Bruce will already have thought of several handfuls of examples Damian could pull from.] Dent wanted to cleanse the justice system of Gotham to create a place everyone could live without fear.
Now he's Two-Face.
no subject
So, yeah, Bruce knew Damian was about to say something especially cruel, and he takes a moment to just close his eyes and let a breath pass as the pain flares up again before he lets it go. He opens his eyes again and he looks very tired as he looks back to Damian. ]
I'm not going to say either way about Harvey, he made his choices. The same as the people here will -- their own choices, good and bad. Damian, I'm not saying that I expect this place to be a den of virtue but I don't think it'll devolve into chaos. I'm going to hope it won't and if it does... if you're right and something tips the scales the other direction...
[ A shoulder is lifted in a shrug and Bruce has made his peace with this. ]
That's why we're here.
no subject
Then again, Bruce had asked him.] We didn't come here voluntarily much less to hold everyone's hand when they decide to do something stupid.
It seems foolish to put up the stoplight after the kid gets hit by the car, Father. [He frowns, knowing good and well already that no one has done anything which warrants this level of suspicion. Actually...] What about the person that tried to kill Higashitaka?
He said someone named Kamui wanted to kill him for no reason. I feel like you're underestimating the chaos sitting beneath the surface of this place.
[Damian, almost everyone literally turns into werewolves and people don't start a witch hunt about it. It's fine? Chill.]
no subject
You could use the same logic against people in Gotham. They don't choose to live in Gotham, they're born there, why bother helping them when they know how bad Gotham is? They should've just left, if they get hurt it's their fault.
[ A raise of an eyebrow and -- ]
See how that sounds? No one else came here voluntarily but we have the means to help, as we do back home, and so we help. To do less would make you look like the selfish little boy I've warned you against being, Damian.
[ And if he knew Damian was talking about Josuke, he'd probably laugh because Josuke is a dramatic teenager who just complains a lot. Come on, Damian! ]
I know neither of those people. How am I supposed to assess that threat? Just by your word, when you're clearly trying to convince me the people here are bad? I will look into it though.
[ A soft shake of his head here and he's going to level a very flat look in Damian's direction. He's absolutely about to wreck Damian's shit right now. ]
What I don't understand is why you're debating me on the simple idea of helping people. Your duties as Robin aren't bound to the city limits of Gotham or even the boundaries of our universe. You know that. I know you do because I know about you, Jon, and Yggardis, boy.
no subject
It's annoying how easy he can be wrangled simply by mentioning the Robin mantle. Not that he wouldn't help people anyway! Of course he's Robin! Of course he gets the Bat standards! He's just running at the mouth. Clearly, thirteen year old prodigies know everything.] Kent. [It sounds very accusatory, and with the pinch to his brows it's obvious he realizes how Bruce came about this information.
Dammit. Why do dads have to freaking share everything? Don't they understand secret son trips across other dimensions?] Tt.
Spare me the lecture, old man. I know what I'm supposed to do. I know what it means to be Robin. I'm the best one. [There's a little of a smirk. Maybe he's teasing. Maybe.] Besides, I don't trust the rest of the "heroes" here to know what they're doing.
They're school children trying to get a hero degree.
[DON'T DRAG HIM TOO HARD BRUCE]
no subject
But maybe, maybe the corner of Bruce's mouth does turn upward a little in amusement at Damian's declaration that he's the best. Maybe.
He'll listen to Damian berate the others again and it takes a lot of effort not to roll his eyes again. He considers it, Damian's insistence but it does mean he's spending time with kids his own age who do the same thing he does. The Teen Titans are a good team but Damian's always struggling with them, and Jon is great for Damian but he's not here.
So... ]
Alright. But if they're willing, maybe you can help them know better. They clearly want to help and they haven't seen the same things you and I have experienced, so... teach them.
[ Go talk to kids your own age and learn how to be a person, Damian. ]