[ Selina and Clark absolutely both have different approaches to things and there's a high chance Bruce will eventually find himself caught between them. It's one of his emotional blindspots though so he hasn't come to that conclusion quite yet, but eventually, he'll realize he's trying to be the Bruce they both know which isn't exactly the... same... Bruce.
Oh boy.
But that's an issue for another day and instead Bruce is just going to raise an eyebrow at the babysitting comment and -- ]
That's one way to put it.
[ The next question is a good one though and something Bruce has thought about himself so he's glad to talk about it with Damian. It's true, their loose form of hierarchy isn't ... stable or prone to collapsing quite quickly. He's still figuring out how he wants to approach that but it's when Damian makes the Lord of the Flies reference that Bruce's thoughtfulness turns a bit wry. ]
I do not think everyone here can work together equally, no. But I don't think it'll turn into everyone deciding to cull the weak.
[ He pauses then and thinks back of what this actually reminds him of -- Zero Year. Gotham was an isolated, ravaged city and yet the citizens didn't attack each other in the streets. They banded together, in their own way. Duke saved his life. They attempted to solve Nygma's riddle. But Damian wasn't around for that, has no idea what Bruce experienced then and to explain it now would just miss the point entirely.
Gotham during Zero Year was a terrible place but it wasn't savage and the citizens still had lives, cherished one each other, worked to help each other. In a place like this, Bruce expects similar to happen. ]
Do you truly believe given enough time and distance good people, especially young ones, will collapse morally and turn feral and wild? Do you think that would happen here?
[Really, Damian can eat shit since, so far, for two whole months, the people here have not only survived but been on their game. Sort of. Minus the fact they spent more time making a defense force and exploring a forest than trying to craft basic necessities.
They've done a good bit of other things--the garden, keeping the chickens, the quests--and Damian can acknowledge that much. Like any Bat, he worries about the future. He worries about things getting more difficult. The trial with the birds. Restoring the sun?]
I believe with enough time and distance, even good people are capable of bad things.
[His eyes lift to Bruce's face, holding the gaze firm and resolute. Pointedly. Knowing. Bruce will already be able to tell he's going to be an ass, and Bruce will already have thought of several handfuls of examples Damian could pull from.] Dent wanted to cleanse the justice system of Gotham to create a place everyone could live without fear.
[ There's something ironic about Damian throwing Harvey in his face when Damian wasn't there. He wasn't alive yet. He read the history which is why he can talk about it but the person who lived it, who suffered because of Harvey, who still bleeds for him to this day -- it's Bruce.
So, yeah, Bruce knew Damian was about to say something especially cruel, and he takes a moment to just close his eyes and let a breath pass as the pain flares up again before he lets it go. He opens his eyes again and he looks very tired as he looks back to Damian. ]
I'm not going to say either way about Harvey, he made his choices. The same as the people here will -- their own choices, good and bad. Damian, I'm not saying that I expect this place to be a den of virtue but I don't think it'll devolve into chaos. I'm going to hope it won't and if it does... if you're right and something tips the scales the other direction...
[ A shoulder is lifted in a shrug and Bruce has made his peace with this. ]
[Honestly, Damian expects some kind of scolding about using Dent, having known that Dent was such a slam to Bruce. He's more surprised when there's nothing but his father being silently agitated. Maybe that's worse.
Then again, Bruce had asked him.] We didn't come here voluntarily much less to hold everyone's hand when they decide to do something stupid.
It seems foolish to put up the stoplight after the kid gets hit by the car, Father. [He frowns, knowing good and well already that no one has done anything which warrants this level of suspicion. Actually...] What about the person that tried to kill Higashitaka?
He said someone named Kamui wanted to kill him for no reason. I feel like you're underestimating the chaos sitting beneath the surface of this place.
[Damian, almost everyone literally turns into werewolves and people don't start a witch hunt about it. It's fine? Chill.]
[ Oh, it hurts. It hurts deeply and later, alone, he'll take some time to think about Harvey again, about how he failed him. That doesn't help right now though, does it? That doesn't add to the conversation other than letting Damian's streak of vindictiveness win. That's something he's trying to get Damian to let go of in the first place. ]
You could use the same logic against people in Gotham. They don't choose to live in Gotham, they're born there, why bother helping them when they know how bad Gotham is? They should've just left, if they get hurt it's their fault.
[ A raise of an eyebrow and -- ]
See how that sounds? No one else came here voluntarily but we have the means to help, as we do back home, and so we help. To do less would make you look like the selfish little boy I've warned you against being, Damian.
[ And if he knew Damian was talking about Josuke, he'd probably laugh because Josuke is a dramatic teenager who just complains a lot. Come on, Damian! ]
I know neither of those people. How am I supposed to assess that threat? Just by your word, when you're clearly trying to convince me the people here are bad? I will look into it though.
[ A soft shake of his head here and he's going to level a very flat look in Damian's direction. He's absolutely about to wreck Damian's shit right now. ]
What I don't understand is why you're debating me on the simple idea of helping people. Your duties as Robin aren't bound to the city limits of Gotham or even the boundaries of our universe. You know that. I know you do because I know about you, Jon, and Yggardis, boy.
[He's not sure why he continuously tries to debate with his dad when Bruce just ends up slam dunking him every time. His mouth opens, and then it snaps shut again after a moment.
It's annoying how easy he can be wrangled simply by mentioning the Robin mantle. Not that he wouldn't help people anyway! Of course he's Robin! Of course he gets the Bat standards! He's just running at the mouth. Clearly, thirteen year old prodigies know everything.] Kent. [It sounds very accusatory, and with the pinch to his brows it's obvious he realizes how Bruce came about this information.
Dammit. Why do dads have to freaking share everything? Don't they understand secret son trips across other dimensions?] Tt.
Spare me the lecture, old man. I know what I'm supposed to do. I know what it means to be Robin. I'm the best one. [There's a little of a smirk. Maybe he's teasing. Maybe.] Besides, I don't trust the rest of the "heroes" here to know what they're doing.
They're school children trying to get a hero degree.
[ Bruce leans back, an elbow on the desk and leaning his cheek on the hand as he watches Damian go through the emotions, his understanding of Bruce's implication. Yes, of course he learned it from Clark. Jon tells Clark everything and Clark tells Bruce when it has to deal with Damian. This wouldn't happen if Damian ever told him anything but then again, Bruce doesn't tell Damian anything either.
But maybe, maybe the corner of Bruce's mouth does turn upward a little in amusement at Damian's declaration that he's the best. Maybe.
He'll listen to Damian berate the others again and it takes a lot of effort not to roll his eyes again. He considers it, Damian's insistence but it does mean he's spending time with kids his own age who do the same thing he does. The Teen Titans are a good team but Damian's always struggling with them, and Jon is great for Damian but he's not here.
So... ]
Alright. But if they're willing, maybe you can help them know better. They clearly want to help and they haven't seen the same things you and I have experienced, so... teach them.
[ Go talk to kids your own age and learn how to be a person, Damian. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Oh boy.
But that's an issue for another day and instead Bruce is just going to raise an eyebrow at the babysitting comment and -- ]
That's one way to put it.
[ The next question is a good one though and something Bruce has thought about himself so he's glad to talk about it with Damian. It's true, their loose form of hierarchy isn't ... stable or prone to collapsing quite quickly. He's still figuring out how he wants to approach that but it's when Damian makes the Lord of the Flies reference that Bruce's thoughtfulness turns a bit wry. ]
I do not think everyone here can work together equally, no. But I don't think it'll turn into everyone deciding to cull the weak.
[ He pauses then and thinks back of what this actually reminds him of -- Zero Year. Gotham was an isolated, ravaged city and yet the citizens didn't attack each other in the streets. They banded together, in their own way. Duke saved his life. They attempted to solve Nygma's riddle. But Damian wasn't around for that, has no idea what Bruce experienced then and to explain it now would just miss the point entirely.
Gotham during Zero Year was a terrible place but it wasn't savage and the citizens still had lives, cherished one each other, worked to help each other. In a place like this, Bruce expects similar to happen. ]
Do you truly believe given enough time and distance good people, especially young ones, will collapse morally and turn feral and wild? Do you think that would happen here?
no subject
They've done a good bit of other things--the garden, keeping the chickens, the quests--and Damian can acknowledge that much. Like any Bat, he worries about the future. He worries about things getting more difficult. The trial with the birds. Restoring the sun?]
I believe with enough time and distance, even good people are capable of bad things.
[His eyes lift to Bruce's face, holding the gaze firm and resolute. Pointedly. Knowing. Bruce will already be able to tell he's going to be an ass, and Bruce will already have thought of several handfuls of examples Damian could pull from.] Dent wanted to cleanse the justice system of Gotham to create a place everyone could live without fear.
Now he's Two-Face.
no subject
So, yeah, Bruce knew Damian was about to say something especially cruel, and he takes a moment to just close his eyes and let a breath pass as the pain flares up again before he lets it go. He opens his eyes again and he looks very tired as he looks back to Damian. ]
I'm not going to say either way about Harvey, he made his choices. The same as the people here will -- their own choices, good and bad. Damian, I'm not saying that I expect this place to be a den of virtue but I don't think it'll devolve into chaos. I'm going to hope it won't and if it does... if you're right and something tips the scales the other direction...
[ A shoulder is lifted in a shrug and Bruce has made his peace with this. ]
That's why we're here.
no subject
Then again, Bruce had asked him.] We didn't come here voluntarily much less to hold everyone's hand when they decide to do something stupid.
It seems foolish to put up the stoplight after the kid gets hit by the car, Father. [He frowns, knowing good and well already that no one has done anything which warrants this level of suspicion. Actually...] What about the person that tried to kill Higashitaka?
He said someone named Kamui wanted to kill him for no reason. I feel like you're underestimating the chaos sitting beneath the surface of this place.
[Damian, almost everyone literally turns into werewolves and people don't start a witch hunt about it. It's fine? Chill.]
no subject
You could use the same logic against people in Gotham. They don't choose to live in Gotham, they're born there, why bother helping them when they know how bad Gotham is? They should've just left, if they get hurt it's their fault.
[ A raise of an eyebrow and -- ]
See how that sounds? No one else came here voluntarily but we have the means to help, as we do back home, and so we help. To do less would make you look like the selfish little boy I've warned you against being, Damian.
[ And if he knew Damian was talking about Josuke, he'd probably laugh because Josuke is a dramatic teenager who just complains a lot. Come on, Damian! ]
I know neither of those people. How am I supposed to assess that threat? Just by your word, when you're clearly trying to convince me the people here are bad? I will look into it though.
[ A soft shake of his head here and he's going to level a very flat look in Damian's direction. He's absolutely about to wreck Damian's shit right now. ]
What I don't understand is why you're debating me on the simple idea of helping people. Your duties as Robin aren't bound to the city limits of Gotham or even the boundaries of our universe. You know that. I know you do because I know about you, Jon, and Yggardis, boy.
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It's annoying how easy he can be wrangled simply by mentioning the Robin mantle. Not that he wouldn't help people anyway! Of course he's Robin! Of course he gets the Bat standards! He's just running at the mouth. Clearly, thirteen year old prodigies know everything.] Kent. [It sounds very accusatory, and with the pinch to his brows it's obvious he realizes how Bruce came about this information.
Dammit. Why do dads have to freaking share everything? Don't they understand secret son trips across other dimensions?] Tt.
Spare me the lecture, old man. I know what I'm supposed to do. I know what it means to be Robin. I'm the best one. [There's a little of a smirk. Maybe he's teasing. Maybe.] Besides, I don't trust the rest of the "heroes" here to know what they're doing.
They're school children trying to get a hero degree.
[DON'T DRAG HIM TOO HARD BRUCE]
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But maybe, maybe the corner of Bruce's mouth does turn upward a little in amusement at Damian's declaration that he's the best. Maybe.
He'll listen to Damian berate the others again and it takes a lot of effort not to roll his eyes again. He considers it, Damian's insistence but it does mean he's spending time with kids his own age who do the same thing he does. The Teen Titans are a good team but Damian's always struggling with them, and Jon is great for Damian but he's not here.
So... ]
Alright. But if they're willing, maybe you can help them know better. They clearly want to help and they haven't seen the same things you and I have experienced, so... teach them.
[ Go talk to kids your own age and learn how to be a person, Damian. ]